Souji's Dungeon: A Summary.
Nov. 22nd, 2017 04:23 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
fridgeninjaSo: Souji's dungeon, the Maze of Doubt, is a little different than most Persona/Shadow Dungeons. The central theme is not the resistance to a Shadow - You're Not Me!! - but confusions about role - Who Am I?
As such, each of Souji's points of confusion was framed as a choice between two conflicting ideas, represented by the two people arguing with one another in most of the rooms, which rescuers have to resolve by either reconciling them or choosing between them. I'm still open for threading any of these encounters, if people are interested, but most importantly, I want to lay out the dilemmas and hear the short version of how everyone would have reacted to them.
Velvet Space
Victor, the version of Souji-as-Velvet Attendant, represents the parts of Souji that are most self-sacrificing, not wanting to burden others with his problems, and that are most fatalistic about his future as a Traveler - in Tarot, the presence of the Major Arcana means factors beyond the querent's control, and part of Souji feels that Traveling undermines the validity of any choices he makes, making solving these dilemmas pointless.
The Seal OF Fate
Ten keyholes are laid out in a Celtic Cross Tarot spread, a ten-card prediction about Souji's past, present, and future. Every room in the maze holds a key, and those keys unlock the boss encounter. They also define what part of Souji each bit of confusion relates to.
The Present. Setting: The Grid
The room with all of Souji's Personas as Grid Identity disc represents his present state of mind, with everything locked up and closed away. My intention was to permit people to keep these Personas, if they wanted, & that Souji would lose them as a result. This room also symbolizes the Dead Arcana - Star, Fortune, Hierophant, & Temperance - whose social links won't be represented in the rest of the dungeon.
The Challenge. Setting: Harrogate. Ruling Arcana: Devil & Tower.
In this room, a classic P4-esque Shadow Souji represents Souji at his most repressed, bound up in negativity; in contrast with a representation of the cold-hearted manipulative infiltration of Souji in Moebius, who represents a disastrously changed version of Souji. This room is all about failure states and worst-case scenarios, and Souji's worst fears about himself, and it's one of the only rooms where combat with the Shadows is even possible.
The Past. Setting: Shoals. Ruling Arcana: Emperor & Empress.
The Shadows in this room appear as Yosuke & Chie, with their Arcana being not the classixc P4 roles they have for him, but their roles in his life now. Yosuke represents tradition, the comfortable memory of life the way it was before Inaba, detached, always the new kid, traveling every year & only staying on the surface of life. Chie represents the world which she comes from where Souji never gained a Persona, where he could focus only on being the best friend and happiest person he could be. Importantly, this is not how Souji sees Yosuke & Chie in-game, but it is a repressed, Shadow-version, the things he thinks about in association with the worlds they represent.
The Future. Setting: Moebius. Ruling Arcana: Hanged Man & Death.
The Shadows of Yua & Naoki represent stangation & dynamism; whether Souji should hang onto the roles of the past that mattered to him or let himself become someone and something new as he Travels, possibly at the cost of letting go of his own world & his understanding of it.
Aspirations. Setting: Rome. Ruling Arcana: Strength & Sun.
Shadows of Rise & Naoto make this one a little awkward and more than a little surreal. In this case, Rise represents Souji's endurance & dedication, and Naoto represents his optimism & curiosity; as the factors or virtues that motivate him.
Subconscious & Emotions. Setting: Questing Country. Ruling Arcana: Fool & Magician.
Shadow versions of Hiroshi & Seth Sowerby, his infiltration from Newport, represent openness to new experience, being reactive; versus being decisive or proactive & forging a path to what he wants.
Advice. Setting: Lightning Age. Ruling Arcana: Priestess & Moon.
Shadows of Philip & Beatrice represent the parts of Souji that seek normalcy versus the parts of Souji that seek adventure.
Influences. Setting: Olympus. Ruling Arcana: Hermit & Judgment.
Shadows of Souji's newest CR, Casper & Kohaku, represent the parts of Souji that are introspective & philosophical versus the parts of him that are externally focused and action-oriented.
Hopes & Fears. Setting: Newport. Ruling Arcana: World & Lovers.
Shadows of Inaba Souji & PSYCHE aka the Lovers Arcana represent two ideals of Souji as he could be: the calm, open Leader who defeated Izanami, or the experience & relationship-focused sensation-seeker his Arcana patron clearly is.
Outcome. Setting: Bando. Ruling Arcana: Chariot & Justice.
Shadows of Kanji & Akira represent a Souji who has moved on from what he was & found a new space in his new life; or a Souji whose values dictate that he must understand this world in terms of his old one. (Again, I want to emphasize that this is not necessarily how Souji sees Kanji & Akira, only that, structurally, they fit these roles in his dilemmas).
BEHIND THE SEAL OF FATE
Once the Travelers have resolved these conflicts, they can return to Victor, who will Register the winning key, or, if the conflict was resolved without one Shadow's argument 'winning,' Fuse the keys, & unlocking the final boss.
As a Persona 5 style dungeon, Victor & Akira would have been able to inform the party that they had to send notification to the master of the maze before proceeding.
The Treasure in the boss chamber would have been Souji's Wild Card (which means that there are resolutions of this dungeon where Souji either temporarily or permanently loses it, and/or his Persona abilities are altered in some way), and the boss itself is a Shapeshifter, changing to a different Souji-infiltration and ability set every round. After defeating the Shapeshifter one way or another & choosing what to do with the treasure, the dungeon begins to collapse, & Victor will rush the Travelers to the exit - outside of which they would find a weakened and shaky Souji awaiting them, in need of rest but able to decisively face his inner confusions and conflicts now & move on.
So. That's what I had planned. I'd really like it if folks would comment below with their thoughts on how their character would have approached resolving some of these conflicts, what sides they would have taken, what tactics they would have tried. You don't need to have a solution for every room (especially as people were in different groups), but if you could respond to the three rooms that would hit your character hardest emotionally plus the final boss fight, that would be great. We can handwave that the groups changed between rooms, we don't need to keep that consistent.
Likewise, let me know if you have any questions, or if there are any threads you'd actually like to thread through out of these, & we can go back & do that.
As such, each of Souji's points of confusion was framed as a choice between two conflicting ideas, represented by the two people arguing with one another in most of the rooms, which rescuers have to resolve by either reconciling them or choosing between them. I'm still open for threading any of these encounters, if people are interested, but most importantly, I want to lay out the dilemmas and hear the short version of how everyone would have reacted to them.
Velvet Space
Victor, the version of Souji-as-Velvet Attendant, represents the parts of Souji that are most self-sacrificing, not wanting to burden others with his problems, and that are most fatalistic about his future as a Traveler - in Tarot, the presence of the Major Arcana means factors beyond the querent's control, and part of Souji feels that Traveling undermines the validity of any choices he makes, making solving these dilemmas pointless.
The Seal OF Fate
Ten keyholes are laid out in a Celtic Cross Tarot spread, a ten-card prediction about Souji's past, present, and future. Every room in the maze holds a key, and those keys unlock the boss encounter. They also define what part of Souji each bit of confusion relates to.
The Present. Setting: The Grid
The room with all of Souji's Personas as Grid Identity disc represents his present state of mind, with everything locked up and closed away. My intention was to permit people to keep these Personas, if they wanted, & that Souji would lose them as a result. This room also symbolizes the Dead Arcana - Star, Fortune, Hierophant, & Temperance - whose social links won't be represented in the rest of the dungeon.
The Challenge. Setting: Harrogate. Ruling Arcana: Devil & Tower.
In this room, a classic P4-esque Shadow Souji represents Souji at his most repressed, bound up in negativity; in contrast with a representation of the cold-hearted manipulative infiltration of Souji in Moebius, who represents a disastrously changed version of Souji. This room is all about failure states and worst-case scenarios, and Souji's worst fears about himself, and it's one of the only rooms where combat with the Shadows is even possible.
The Past. Setting: Shoals. Ruling Arcana: Emperor & Empress.
The Shadows in this room appear as Yosuke & Chie, with their Arcana being not the classixc P4 roles they have for him, but their roles in his life now. Yosuke represents tradition, the comfortable memory of life the way it was before Inaba, detached, always the new kid, traveling every year & only staying on the surface of life. Chie represents the world which she comes from where Souji never gained a Persona, where he could focus only on being the best friend and happiest person he could be. Importantly, this is not how Souji sees Yosuke & Chie in-game, but it is a repressed, Shadow-version, the things he thinks about in association with the worlds they represent.
The Future. Setting: Moebius. Ruling Arcana: Hanged Man & Death.
The Shadows of Yua & Naoki represent stangation & dynamism; whether Souji should hang onto the roles of the past that mattered to him or let himself become someone and something new as he Travels, possibly at the cost of letting go of his own world & his understanding of it.
Aspirations. Setting: Rome. Ruling Arcana: Strength & Sun.
Shadows of Rise & Naoto make this one a little awkward and more than a little surreal. In this case, Rise represents Souji's endurance & dedication, and Naoto represents his optimism & curiosity; as the factors or virtues that motivate him.
Subconscious & Emotions. Setting: Questing Country. Ruling Arcana: Fool & Magician.
Shadow versions of Hiroshi & Seth Sowerby, his infiltration from Newport, represent openness to new experience, being reactive; versus being decisive or proactive & forging a path to what he wants.
Advice. Setting: Lightning Age. Ruling Arcana: Priestess & Moon.
Shadows of Philip & Beatrice represent the parts of Souji that seek normalcy versus the parts of Souji that seek adventure.
Influences. Setting: Olympus. Ruling Arcana: Hermit & Judgment.
Shadows of Souji's newest CR, Casper & Kohaku, represent the parts of Souji that are introspective & philosophical versus the parts of him that are externally focused and action-oriented.
Hopes & Fears. Setting: Newport. Ruling Arcana: World & Lovers.
Shadows of Inaba Souji & PSYCHE aka the Lovers Arcana represent two ideals of Souji as he could be: the calm, open Leader who defeated Izanami, or the experience & relationship-focused sensation-seeker his Arcana patron clearly is.
Outcome. Setting: Bando. Ruling Arcana: Chariot & Justice.
Shadows of Kanji & Akira represent a Souji who has moved on from what he was & found a new space in his new life; or a Souji whose values dictate that he must understand this world in terms of his old one. (Again, I want to emphasize that this is not necessarily how Souji sees Kanji & Akira, only that, structurally, they fit these roles in his dilemmas).
BEHIND THE SEAL OF FATE
Once the Travelers have resolved these conflicts, they can return to Victor, who will Register the winning key, or, if the conflict was resolved without one Shadow's argument 'winning,' Fuse the keys, & unlocking the final boss.
As a Persona 5 style dungeon, Victor & Akira would have been able to inform the party that they had to send notification to the master of the maze before proceeding.
The Treasure in the boss chamber would have been Souji's Wild Card (which means that there are resolutions of this dungeon where Souji either temporarily or permanently loses it, and/or his Persona abilities are altered in some way), and the boss itself is a Shapeshifter, changing to a different Souji-infiltration and ability set every round. After defeating the Shapeshifter one way or another & choosing what to do with the treasure, the dungeon begins to collapse, & Victor will rush the Travelers to the exit - outside of which they would find a weakened and shaky Souji awaiting them, in need of rest but able to decisively face his inner confusions and conflicts now & move on.
So. That's what I had planned. I'd really like it if folks would comment below with their thoughts on how their character would have approached resolving some of these conflicts, what sides they would have taken, what tactics they would have tried. You don't need to have a solution for every room (especially as people were in different groups), but if you could respond to the three rooms that would hit your character hardest emotionally plus the final boss fight, that would be great. We can handwave that the groups changed between rooms, we don't need to keep that consistent.
Likewise, let me know if you have any questions, or if there are any threads you'd actually like to thread through out of these, & we can go back & do that.
no subject
Date: 2017-11-23 01:31 am (UTC)Moebius - Obviously he's biased toward the Death side of the argument at this point, but it's not like he doesn't understand where ol' Pendu might have some merits. He wouldn't be against 'both are right.'
Newport - this one's definitely a 'por que no las dos?' room. As Naoki sees it, Souji doesn't have to give up his previous achievements in order to be able to learn more about the world and enjoy new experiences and sensations.
Questing Country is probably the best bet for the third one, and Naoki would again point out that you can easily have both - you can be pen to new experiences and take what you learn from them to carve a new path from there.
As for the final boss, killing this personal of a Shadow has never been at all helpful, so Naoki wouldn't be advocating for that here. If the Treasure can be safely returned to Souji, he's in favor of that.
Threading because same group
Date: 2017-11-23 05:30 pm (UTC)Also if she can pop over to Rome and say hey to Shadow-her and Shadow-Naoto she'll keep up the same thing. She's more or less at peace with her Shadow after her own Dungeon and won't mind dealing with Souji's version of her.
As for the Final Boss, obviously she's going to be busy keeping up with his abilities and letting everyone know how to deal with them, but she's going to be a lot more prone to trying to calm him down than fight or take his Treasure. He earned his Wild Card, he should keep it. He just...needs some help dealing with the implications, and she's there for that.
no subject
Date: 2017-11-23 05:25 am (UTC)Questing Country Phillip would side a bit more with being proactive
KICK FATE IN THE TEETHbut could pretty easily be convinced to support both sides.Lightning Age Phillip gets this problem so much, and it's a little weird actually being able to relate to Souji on something. He would try to argue that you can have both, but it's probably pretty clear that he's also trying to convince himself of that.
Newport He is of the opinion that Lovers is probably wrong on principle. Sorry Souji.
For the boss, depending on what's needed Phillip would either jump to analysis, or if Rise's got that handled he'll be on various annoying support spells. He probably would have not taken Queen Mab out of the dungeon with him, Souji can still have her.
no subject
Date: 2017-11-29 01:06 am (UTC)Questing Country - Casper would have naturally sided with being a bit more reactive, but Phillip probably could drag him into the "come on let's kick fate in the teeth we have already talked about this" side.
Lightning Age - Casper kind of falls in line with Phillip for this - he really would prefer to be normal but knows that's impossible. Like. None of them are normal just by being here. Sorry, Souji.
Newport - ... Yeah Casper is all for experiences but sometimes people need a leader. Even if you can't feel like one, you have to act like one sometimes.
Also he has Issues around love so uh. Yeah.Casper would not have taken his Persona out of the dungeon. It would have weirded him out too much. Also Casper would have been a frontline attacker, using his blue magic and the persona where he could and his fists where he couldn't. Or anything around that he could use for bludgeoning.
no subject
Date: 2017-11-29 02:21 am (UTC)Bando - Yeah, Chie's going to go heavy on the Chariot/Kanji side of the equation here. It's her original Arcana after all, even if she's passed over to Sun by now. And it might jog her into realizing that she sometimes falls prey to thinking of things in terms of her old life too.
Shoals - Yeah, I'm sorry, but Chie's also biased in favor of her own world here. Like, there's no changing the past or anything and he should be able to accept that Yosuke's world is what happened, but she'd rather have him happy and hanging out with his friends and being with them than just, like, floating through life on the surface of things without diving in. Even if it means he didn't get a Persona. (Souji doesn't need a Persona to be a valuable person. Her world's Yu never had one.)
Olympus - Since someone should go there. Chie's going to admit that she personally weighs in more on being action focused than introspective, but there's not actually anything wrong with being introspective, no matter how much she rags on Naoki for talking and thinking instead of doing. And from what she knows of him from Synodiporia and from Yu back home, she thinks he probably could handle being both.
As far as the boss fight goes, she'd try to see if they could negotiate or sneak past or whatever first, because she knows that you can't actually fight Boss Shadows until they start it, but once it does start the fight she'll do her best to help everyone out...
... even though she's stuck back with Tomoe again instead of Suzuka Gongen.
And wow is that going to bother her afterward.
ADDENDUM
Date: 2017-12-09 10:00 am (UTC)And re: whether Souji should keep his Wildcard or not... honestly, this is just her perspective, but if he doesn't want it (and the Shoals room makes her think maybe he doesn't) then he shouldn't have to keep it. She'll let herself be overruled by the others if necessary, but honestly, Izanami is dealt and there are lots of other magical things people here in liminal can do so maybe he doesn't need all the purses if he doesn't want them. I doubt the others will let her steal it on her own, but she'd argue for taking it once she figures out that's an option.
Too lazy to sign in as Naoto.
Date: 2017-12-09 04:41 am (UTC)During the fight, she would only be summoning Sukuna-Hikona, possibly surprisingly, but she'd help defeat the Shadow, and advocate that they do not take his Wild Card away.
(Ask if there's anything specific.)
Re: Too lazy to sign in as Naoto.
Date: 2017-12-09 05:21 am (UTC)Do you know the three rooms she'd be likeliest to be in (since they're being split between the different groups?)
no subject
Date: 2017-12-09 05:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-12-09 05:28 am (UTC)K! Thanks!!
no subject
Date: 2017-12-09 10:22 am (UTC)He'd back Chie up on 'who you are isn't about your Wild Card, you choose for yourself' after the boss,
and then felt kind of guilty about 'did I mean that or not?' after the dungeon. He knows it's as much a curse as a gift and doesn't want Souji to be forced to bear it if he doesn't want it.Just posting these for now, coming back once I know the other possible rooms?